The last thread in a discussion on whether it is impolite/rude if the person you are looking to hire is asking about the salary before a job interview

I actually think the summary is too harsh for the reality and so I would
offer these final comments.

For example:

1.       I don’t think both employee and employer think they are the major
role players in this game – I think both understand there is a process here,
a blending of two entities. I don’t think anyone is naïve here. Everyone
understands this is about finding a match between the two.

2.       While some employers may want to find the most skills at the lowest
pay, most employers readily understand that if they pay “the lowest,” they
are almost guaranteed that a valuable employee will be out the door as soon
as something better comes along.

3.       I don’t view interviewing someone as a waste of time – or at least
not in most cases and I encourage people going on interviews not to view
this as a waste either. Learn from the experience to improve your
presentation skills, your understanding of the market, your people skills,
whatever. Learn and it isn’t a waste of time…don’t – and perhaps you are
correct.

4.       I think it is wrong to say  that an employee MUST NOT ask for a
salary before – because it is considered bad behavior – again, this is too
strong. What I’ve been saying is you shouldn’t because it MIGHT be
considered not bad behavior but a sign that your priorities are too
different from mine to find a middle ground. Honestly, I have been in
business long enough to know that people need and want to make a living and
maybe even a bit more. I just want a chance to meet them and learn about
their skills before they dismiss my job because they want more money. I
don’t mind someone asking what skills they need – if you don’t have them, I
too would like to save everyone’s time – but money…money is always
negotiable. Maybe I have something to offer that is more valuable or we can
work something out; or maybe you are willing to compromise because you’re
going to love working for my company and gaining new and valuable
experiences which might offset what you wanted. Or maybe you don’t have a
real sense of what the market is paying now and so if you keep telling
people rather than listening, you might remain without employment.

5.       Obviously, we all know that employees are, for the most part, not
working for the love of the job alone and that we are not naïve enough to
believe that employees aren’t or shouldn’t be interested in money.

Every part of the interview process – or perhaps I should say gaining
employment process – has a function. You aren’t going to get a job based on
your cover letter – I don’t care what it says. Does that mean you shouldn’t
write one? Absolutely not. Just understand the function and achieve the
goal. You probably aren’t going to get a job offer based on your resume –
sometimes, especially in telecommuting positions, but most likely not in a
normal work environment. Does that mean you should give up on your resume
–again, obviously not.

If you feel it is acceptable to ask about salary in a telephone conversation
before an interview takes place, why not state your salary requirements in
your cover letter and save us both time. The employer will save time and
simply decide if the money fits?

My point all along is that an interview is an investment of time by both the
interviewer and the interviewee. Many of the comments in this thread were
related to one side of this “dance.” I urge everyone to realize that there
are two partners in this process. Yes, each has goals and interests and
priorities – but more, there is a common goal: to find the best match. Maybe
it is you; maybe it is not – but if you ask for something like the salary,
or if you get a car, or how much vacation time you get…you may be sending
the wrong signal.

I would hope and expect that if I am willing to invest time, the person
seeking the job would be willing too. Just as I would hope not to dismiss
someone without giving them a decent chance to show they are right for the
job, I would hope a potential employee would feel the same. I’m smart enough
to know that money is a factor for everyone (or almost everyone) but come to
the interview and find out so much more.

If money is the key factor in taking a job – then by all means, ask during
the initial phone conversation. But if you do, and the employer says never
mind…perhaps you’ll feel relieved; you certainly should not be surprised.
Maybe they weren’t willing to pay your salary requirements anyway, right?

Bottom line – if you really want to work for a good company, invest in them
and they will invest in you.

Paula

Paula R. Stern is the CEO or WritePoint Ltd., a leading technical writing and training company in Israel. WritePoint offers a variety of services including a full range of documentation services, outsourcing writers full-time, part-time, or on a project basis. Her company offers a long list of training courses (in-house or at their Training Center), web design (web content, graphics, SEO and web promotion), consulting services for help development, social media, and XML/DITA conversions, and more. Paula is an Adobe Community Professional, recognized for her expertise and contributions in the field of help authoring and development. She is also the moderator of Techshoret, the national technical writers list, and the Chief Coordinator of the annual Technical Communicators Conference. You can learn more about Paula on WritePoint’s corporate website: www.writepoint.com.

Bookmark

Responding to this post:

We would like to begin sending a regular Newsletter to our database.  However,
as the database is quite old I don’t know if an opt-in was offered to all on
the list.  On the newsletter itself there will of course be an opt-in/out
option.  Can you advise me on what is the recommended practice for sending
out this first monthly newsletter.  Also, can you recommend any bulk email
providers that we should use.

Response from Debbie Cohen-Abravanel – SEO PPC Plus:

Legally you are required to send one email to request that the recipient opt-in.
You can only send the email to those who opt-in.

About Debbie:

Debbie Cohen-Abravanel is an Online Marketing Expert with over 10 years of experience. Debbie gets sites ranked in the search engines and reduces the cost-per-click in Pay-Per-Click campaigns.

Debbie has a deep understanding of website usability and will get your visitors to take action on your site, your campaigns and your emails.

Contact Debbie at 054-5604863 for a free initial consultation.

Bookmark

All it takes is a post with time and place. Breakfast meetings, coffee get-togethers, or meeting up in the evening.

Past Events include:

Digital Eve Live @ Microsoft Israel R & D Center – held in 2010

Networking with the Digital Eve DEvas and an interactive talk with
Limor Lahiani, Senior Developer at Microsoft Israel Innovation Labs

Limor  shared with us how the MSFT Innovation Labs work and how we can apply their successful business methods to our organizations. She also touched upon her personal experiences building a career as a technology innovator.

This event was arranged by the Digital Eve Steering Committee.

Tel Aviv Coffee and Chat – 2010

A group of us got together one evening to network and put names to the faces.

This was arranged by a simple post by Natasha Shine, one of our members.

Helping Others Helping Ourselves Networking Event – 2009

Bet Elazraki Childrens Home, Natanya

We held this event just before Rosh Hashana ( the Jewish New Year).  More than 220 children who cannot live at home, often for much of their childhood, are raised in this home.

http://www.elazraki.org.il/en/

Bet Elazraki were our hosts for the evening while we networked, and took a serious look at Corporate Responsibility.

Our speaker was Zika Abzuk  from Cisco who  is  Senior Manager, Corporate Affairs at Cisco responsible for CR across Eastern Europe, Israel, Palestine & Sub-Saharan Africa.  http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=9951&authType=name&authToken=WBnA&trk=tyah

This event was arranged by the Digital Eve Steering Committee.

Bookmark

Anyone who can refer me to an expert on either — also appreciated. Whichever one we choose – we’ll need development work!

Thanks!

Tsipi Erann
GigaSpaces Technologies

GigaSpaces XAP is a high-end application platform trusted by enterprises for their business applications – boosting performance with always-on availability, and near-zero latency. As the only product that provides a complete middleware solution on a single platform, XAP is a strategic solution that enhances efficiency and agility across the IT organization.

Bookmark

Hey DEVAs,

I would have titled this post:

*7** Reasons Why The DEVA List Is the Most Valuable Resource I know To Develop Your Marketing Career in Israel *

But obviously that would not have fit in the title field

So here goes:

1.       *Job sites are dead
*At a certain point in your career, there’s only so far you can go
responding to job postings on- or offline. For the past 7 months, I’ve been
working at Radware as their content and social media maven thanks to the only place this gig was posted – the DEVA list! (Thanks Amy

*2.       **DEVAs recognize the true value of solid content and writing
skills
*I’m first and foremost a writer, a web guy second. It’s easy to fall into
the trap of accepting a low salary / freelance fee in our local market,
certainly in this economy. The DEVA list is rife with knowledgeable, well
paid content and marketing professionals who set a great example of
leveraging professional content and writing as a career development tool and core skillset. **

* *

*3.       **DEVAs are mostly right-brained, but know how to wrap their
background with hard skills
*I know there have been times in my career when I wanted to pull my hair out from all the acronym spewing, techno babble sputtering, socially challenged engineers. You gotta love ‘em, but it’s nice to communicate with soft-skilled peers who understand tech is just another thing you need to worry about – not the main deal. **

* *

*4.       **DEVAs contend with and even innovate on all marketing fronts –
Branding, Copywritng, SEO, Social Media, and on and on…
*It’s so easy to get lost in the marketing mix, with the skills you need to
grow your career changing by the nanosecond. I find the knowledge and
insights on this list cut through a lot of the clutter and ground those of
us who just want to get the job done and get ahead. **

* *

*5.       **DEVAs understand giving is the first step to receiving
*So much has been said in the marketing world about giving value for free
before pitching your offering. Very few, however, actually know how to “move the FREE line” and use their knowledge as a powerful marketing tool. You’ll find quite a few of them on this list. **

* *

*6.       **DEVAs think on all sides of the box
*This list is filled with Marcom career people, freelance writers,
consultants, and work-from-home Internet marketers. There are so many ways to grow and monetize marketing skills, and you don’t have to be based in Silicon Valley or Wall Street to make it happen. Certainly, developing your marketing career out of Israel* *comes with a unique set of challenges, but isn’t that part of the attraction? J**

* *

*7.       **DEVAs are teachers & students, Twitterlebrities & followers –
all at the same time
*I learned of the DEVA list from my students at the first Marcom course I
ever gave. Since then, the list has been an endless source of advice, leads,
and even quality career opportunities. From time to time, I do my best to
give back in any way that I can. The more people do the same, the more we all benefit!**

* *

Wishing you all the greatest success and a Hag Sameach,

Ohad Flinker**

Ohad Flinker is a veteran copywriter and Internet marketing consultant with over a decade of experience. Merging the best of Israeli innovation and American business culture, he has consulted both startups and publicly traded companies on either side of the Atlantic. Ohad develops marketing communications (Marcom) campaigns and writes copy for a variety of media vehicles. His professional expertise spans the technical minutiae of web content management, pushing the hot marketing buttons of direct response mind tricks, and leveraging the creative flare of high concept brand strategy. Ohad studied computer science at the Technion, and fed his right brain with a liberal arts background from Haverford College in the US. You can find him @HoverGeek Tweeting about his favorite niche vehicle

Bookmark

…and a final thought on this subject:  Several years ago when I went to
see former U.S. Secretary of State Madeline Albright speak at a book signing
in San Francisco, someone asked her during the Q&A whether she regretted
devoting her life to career rather than her children.

Her answer was that we are all individuals making individual choices suited
to our talents and needs.  Some women are meant to stay at home with kids,
others are meant for public service and others slot into a combination of an
in-between range.  ”But,” she added (and I paraphrase here)  ”there’s a
special place in hell for women who give other women a hard time for the
choice they make.”  The room went wild with applause.

From a single mom working hard to do both!

Stephanie L. Freid

–
Stephanie L. Freid
Writer   Producer   Editor
052-427-9502
http://stefanella.wordpress.com

I Strive to be the Person My Dog Thinks I Am

Stephanie is a freelance journalist and Marcom/Content Craftswoman reveling in her single mom status.  She blogs at: stefanella.wordpress.com <http://stefanella.wordpress.com> 

Bookmark

Natasha Shine set up this meeting in Tel Aviv saying …..

“After the great discussion we’ve been having, I thought maybe it’s time to
set up our next meeting in Tel Aviv.
Why?
Because it would just be nice to get to know you all in person, meet,
mingle and be merry ”

It’s easy to set up an event.  Just put up a post like Natasha did and wait for the response.

Bookmark

I may be one of the youngest on the list which is why I’d like to ask you
all a question. I am just at the beginning of my career, a career that I
love, that I am passionate about and that I am determined to succeed in. My
question is, after all the discussions about the comprise between parenthood
and a successful career, do you feel as mothers that this is true? That
there is indeed a great comprise you have to make and that one will
eventually suffer, or at least dwindle behind?

I do want to have kids, but making something of myself and excelling in my
career is not something I’m willing to compromise on. So what does this
mean? Obviously I know that once I begin having children I will no longer be
able to work the 10-11 hour days that I’m used to, but will I be able to
excel and juggle my family life and professional? Do you believe it is
realistic?

If you feel like sharing, I’d love to hear your opinions and your personal
experiences.

Many Thanks,

~Natasha

At age 23, Natasha Shine is the Social Community and Marketing Manager of a startup company called 6rounds. 6rounds.com <http://6rounds.com>  is a live meeting point, a video chat platform that incorporates real-time communication with interactive features (such as watching videos, facebooking, playing games together, e-learning and much more). Born in London, raised in California, Natasha has now settled in Tel Aviv after making Aliyah by herself almost five years ago.  

Bookmark

You know the feeling of having worked with a really great graphic designer
who has creative, out-of-the-box, thinking skills that can be translated to
image for print/web… whatever – in a way that gets your message across so
beautifully? And at a reasonable price.

Well, back in 2004 I worked with Iris – she was amazing. I used to pay her
more that she charged since she was so good – I felt so blessed. Every
company I went to I took her with me. And then, in 2007 something
unthinkable happened. Iris was offered a full-time job in a company… that
left her with no time to do work on the side.

Since then I have had many experiences with graphic designers… and sadly I
have not had the same experience as I did with Iris. There have been spurts
of magic, but sporadic.

So… I am reaching out to you. A network of professionals like me. And I
hoping you can recommend to me someone, not too costly who can bring back
the spark. I prefer the freelancer – but then again also graphic agencies -
since they can be good too. I have had really good experience with AOP and
Mishan-Portnov and J&J… but i think that they may be out of my budget
right now.

Thank you.
–
Regards,
Miki
054-7799930

PowerSines is a mid-tech Israeli company that provides energy efficiency solutions for lighting worldwide.

Bookmark

As I am unemployed due to cutbacks at my last job (sadly this may sound too familiar to many of you), and with unemployment insurance funds dwindling, I cannot be picky. Therefore, I have not yet refused a job offer or job interview based on the fact that I used to work there. If I do have that opportunity in the future, I am curious to learn from your experiences:

What do you feel about this matter as an employee and/or employer? Have you ever gone back to a place that you used to work for? Has your previous experience with that company helped you get used to the job more quickly? Or are you frustrated that things really haven’t changed since you left or were laid off? As for employers, what are your feelings? Have you hired back employees? Did they leverage their past experience effectively into more senior positions? Or do you feel, like my former colleague– that it’s better to recruit “fresh blood”?

I don’t recall this being discussed before here, so if it has, please refer me to the archived discussion:-)

Looking forward to hearing your responses.

P.S. I’m also interested in job leads in marketing writing, copy-writing, editing, narration and/or social media marketing, that may not have been posted on this list due to confidentiality.

Thanks

Ronni Kives

Ronni has been a marketing writer and editor in the hi-tech industry for more than ten years, including companies such as RADVISION, AudioCodes, TTI Telecom and Dassault Systemes (ENOVIA SmarTeam).  She is presently seeking employment within or beyond the hi-tech industry in the areas of marcom, writing,, editing, social media marketing, and /or narration. Originally from Winnipeg, Canada, she currently resides in Kfar Saba with her teen-aged son.

Ronni Kives
Marketing Writer, Editor, and Narrator
Kfar Saba

email: > rkives@zahav.net.il
> Twitter: RonniKives
> LinkedIn: http://il.linkedin.com/pub/ronni-kives/0/67/a24

Bookmark